ORDER ONLY
Jul. 30th, 2012 09:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
alt_frankI need to talk to you lot about something. someone. my son. neville.
we started writing neville the summer before his second year. we've spent three weeks and a handful of hours here and there with him since we left him with his gran. during the interactions we’ve had with him, we’ve given him our advice about school, we’ve talked to him some about our past, but we’ve kept quiet about everything else. when we write, we don’t use our names, or his. I have to watch every word I say around my kids, because what we can’t talk about is what we do every single day, what we’ve done every single day for the last fifteen years, the people and the places and the work we’ve done and all of it.
everything we’ve done with them has been careful. we ask permission. we wait. we keep our secrets, even when it’s just me and him in the middle of nowhere and there’s no-one around keeping an eye on things. even when he’s kept all the other secrets we’ve ever given him. it’s been hard, no mistake. but we’ve done it. because I’d rather talk about the fucking weather with my kids than not talk to them at all.
sorry hermione. sorry terry.
my son, without knowing what exactly it is we do, asked us last year if he could be a part of it someday. my son was crushed when he wasn’t selected for the damned CCF because he thought it’d make him more useful for us. and the reason he wasn’t in it was because he deliberately sabatoged his chances when he found out there was going to be a boggart. because his biggest fear was that he’d make a mistake and betray us, and he couldn’t let anyone see how he felt about us. he's been studying occlumency with snape since january. hermione, I’m not sure what he says to you in private, but I know that when it comes to the rest of the juniors, he keeps quiet about taking occlumency lessons, about his portkey, and about writing us. and every one of you who’s worked with him at Hogwarts knows how careful he is.
my son came up to us today and told us what he wanted for his birthday.
he told us that he only ever heard about us through other people’s stories and rumours and news, that it was all he had. that the giant hole we’d left in our conversations with him, the one that gives us such a hard time, that it’s much harder for him because all he’s got to fill it with are his own fears and other people’s lies. that it kept him up nights thinking and worrying. and my son told me that what he wanted more than anything was for us to tell him the truth, to sit down and talk to him and be open with him for the first time in his life, and then, he looked us in the eye and said that he wanted us to obliviate him after because that way we’d still be safe. he'd been thinking about it for almost a year. he figured it was better to know, even if it was just for an hour or two.
so we did what we always do. we got permission. and then once we did, we started talking to him. everything we could think of. and then we got snape to bring along terry boot, and we all talked to him for a good two hours, and it was the best goddamn two hours of my life.
we told him why we left him and his sister behind. why we thought it was worth the cost. what we were hoping to do. what he could be a part of someday. he saw that terry was safe and happy, and heard from him about what life was like at moddey dhoo, the place that we built up from a ruin and made into a sanctuary with two wands and years of hard work, where we have almost every muggle born child who has been born on this island in the last six years and counting. he nearly broke down when he found out kevin wasn’t really a squib. got really quiet when we were telling him about the garden and hannah’s tree too.
and then, when all was said and done, he asked me if he could write himself a note. a four word code he’d come up with to write down on a scrap of paper he could keep so he'd know that what he’d asked for had happened. that he’d been told, and been obliviated. that way, he’d know it had already taken place, so he wouldn’t keep asking for it, and he’d know that it was done of his own free will. and even then, he said that he understood if we didn’t want him to do it. he was willing to give that shred of reassurance up just so we could keep our security.
and then snape obliviated him for us, because al was too afraid she’d make a mistake and I was too chicken shit to do it myself, and he took terry back before neville came out of it. and now we have to go back to being careful again.
he might not legally be of age, but he’s handled himself like a man today, and he has for a good long while.
last time we met, we tabled talk of bringing him in. I’d like to reopen that conversation because I damn well think he deserves at least that. and severus, man, thank you. thanks for what you did and what you said to him before you did it. he might not remember, but I will.
we started writing neville the summer before his second year. we've spent three weeks and a handful of hours here and there with him since we left him with his gran. during the interactions we’ve had with him, we’ve given him our advice about school, we’ve talked to him some about our past, but we’ve kept quiet about everything else. when we write, we don’t use our names, or his. I have to watch every word I say around my kids, because what we can’t talk about is what we do every single day, what we’ve done every single day for the last fifteen years, the people and the places and the work we’ve done and all of it.
everything we’ve done with them has been careful. we ask permission. we wait. we keep our secrets, even when it’s just me and him in the middle of nowhere and there’s no-one around keeping an eye on things. even when he’s kept all the other secrets we’ve ever given him. it’s been hard, no mistake. but we’ve done it. because I’d rather talk about the fucking weather with my kids than not talk to them at all.
sorry hermione. sorry terry.
my son, without knowing what exactly it is we do, asked us last year if he could be a part of it someday. my son was crushed when he wasn’t selected for the damned CCF because he thought it’d make him more useful for us. and the reason he wasn’t in it was because he deliberately sabatoged his chances when he found out there was going to be a boggart. because his biggest fear was that he’d make a mistake and betray us, and he couldn’t let anyone see how he felt about us. he's been studying occlumency with snape since january. hermione, I’m not sure what he says to you in private, but I know that when it comes to the rest of the juniors, he keeps quiet about taking occlumency lessons, about his portkey, and about writing us. and every one of you who’s worked with him at Hogwarts knows how careful he is.
my son came up to us today and told us what he wanted for his birthday.
he told us that he only ever heard about us through other people’s stories and rumours and news, that it was all he had. that the giant hole we’d left in our conversations with him, the one that gives us such a hard time, that it’s much harder for him because all he’s got to fill it with are his own fears and other people’s lies. that it kept him up nights thinking and worrying. and my son told me that what he wanted more than anything was for us to tell him the truth, to sit down and talk to him and be open with him for the first time in his life, and then, he looked us in the eye and said that he wanted us to obliviate him after because that way we’d still be safe. he'd been thinking about it for almost a year. he figured it was better to know, even if it was just for an hour or two.
so we did what we always do. we got permission. and then once we did, we started talking to him. everything we could think of. and then we got snape to bring along terry boot, and we all talked to him for a good two hours, and it was the best goddamn two hours of my life.
we told him why we left him and his sister behind. why we thought it was worth the cost. what we were hoping to do. what he could be a part of someday. he saw that terry was safe and happy, and heard from him about what life was like at moddey dhoo, the place that we built up from a ruin and made into a sanctuary with two wands and years of hard work, where we have almost every muggle born child who has been born on this island in the last six years and counting. he nearly broke down when he found out kevin wasn’t really a squib. got really quiet when we were telling him about the garden and hannah’s tree too.
and then, when all was said and done, he asked me if he could write himself a note. a four word code he’d come up with to write down on a scrap of paper he could keep so he'd know that what he’d asked for had happened. that he’d been told, and been obliviated. that way, he’d know it had already taken place, so he wouldn’t keep asking for it, and he’d know that it was done of his own free will. and even then, he said that he understood if we didn’t want him to do it. he was willing to give that shred of reassurance up just so we could keep our security.
and then snape obliviated him for us, because al was too afraid she’d make a mistake and I was too chicken shit to do it myself, and he took terry back before neville came out of it. and now we have to go back to being careful again.
he might not legally be of age, but he’s handled himself like a man today, and he has for a good long while.
last time we met, we tabled talk of bringing him in. I’d like to reopen that conversation because I damn well think he deserves at least that. and severus, man, thank you. thanks for what you did and what you said to him before you did it. he might not remember, but I will.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 01:44 am (UTC)I agree with Frank about re-opening the conversation to let Neville in. And I agree with him about our son's capabilities, and his desire to be a part of this.
Private Message to Al
Date: 2012-07-31 01:46 am (UTC)he was amazing.
Re: Private Message to Al
Date: 2012-07-31 01:47 am (UTC)How could he not be? He's ours.
Re: Private Message to Al
Date: 2012-07-31 01:48 am (UTC)I don't know if I can read any of what they say. not right now.
Re: Private Message to Al
Date: 2012-07-31 01:49 am (UTC)You said your piece. Very well, I might add.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 01:56 am (UTC)It was so hard to walk away, knowing he wouldn't remember. But I know he believed with all his heart it was worth it, and it was sure worth it for me.
(I think maybe I should wait about saying whether he should be allowed into the Order or not until the adults have had their say.)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 01:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:00 am (UTC)And I know what you mean about it being hard.
You'll have a chance to tell him everything again someday. I promise.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:04 am (UTC)We can tell all of you that he's never breathed the slightest hint of any of the secrets he's protecting for Frank and Alice. So that's what happened at the CCF trials. We know he was all torn up about it. Now we know why.
I think if there's anyone in the Junior Auxiliary who deserves in, it's him. (Well, aside from Lee, of course, since he's almost of age.)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:10 am (UTC)(And my goodness, what a very different way your son chose to persuade you as opposed to the method that George and Fred used!)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:10 am (UTC)Evelyn's shown some curiosity about what we do, of course, but she's not on the same page as Neville is right now. Nor should she be.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:10 am (UTC)And we thought through security, too.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:19 am (UTC)Did he ask for this? I suspect not, if it was his idea to be obliviated. I'm sure it's agonising for you as his parents, but it's clear that he at least sees it's not safe for him to have the burden of these secrets now.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:21 am (UTC)I've kept circling back to our discussion in June, and I still think what I said then: Neville himself seems as reliable as any (and more reliable and sensible than many an adult, truth be told.) But I also admit I've more than a little bias.
I do think the larger questions still remain: does it place the Order members at Hogwarts at risk? Would it distance him from his friends? And those, I'm still not sure how to answer.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:27 am (UTC)I think the reasons why he came up with his idea in the first place is because we've told him that we'd be able to be more open with him once he's of age, and I can imagine how far away that can seem to him.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:28 am (UTC)The thing is, it was safe to include Terry because you were taking him in to Moddhey Dhoo. I know we have Hermione, but again, that was done at a very different time and, I expect, with a deal of consideration before you did it. I don't know, I guess I'm saying it would make perfect sense to me if he'd come to you and asked to go live with you. But he didn't--even after you'd told him about the sanctuary.
I'm sorry. I think it seems he may have known best when he decided not to ask you if he could join the Order now instead of waiting. Like Bill says.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:32 am (UTC)"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus. If you see this, then you know you're okay with what you heard."
And then, before he was obliviated, he wrote "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus. Check your journal." on the scrap of paper. We can charm it so only he can read it if you think it'd be troublesome.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:42 am (UTC)I see. Don't think you need to charm the paper eyes-only. The words are innocuous enough. But come to think of it, you might want to charm it so he can't lose it, if it's important to him.
So the code was a signal to himself, to tell him that if he saw those four words in the note, he'd know he really meant what he wrote in the journal.
Clever.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:56 am (UTC)One thing we must think about is that I can see how this would be better for you and Frank and Neville. Or at least how it would make things more bearable. Because I can see how the present situation has to be a real strain for the kid. But how would it help the Order? What can he offer us?
Fred and George Weasley did have tangible benefits to offer. But Neville, as decent a kid as he is (and I don't doubt that), has less to bring to the table.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:03 am (UTC)I've seen that for myself on several occasions--not least the one you mentioned, when he sabotaged his own quite excellent chances of earning a spot in the Combined Cadet Force by injuring himself and then by winning my consent to keep him in my care, although his wounds were quickly healed.
I've also seen glimpses of ways in which his group of friends, our so-called Jr Auxilliary, are working together--with your son in the midst of the scrum, so to speak--they are working together to improve their skills to protect and ready themselves for what may lie ahead and to put themselves in the best position to make a real contribution to us when they one day join in our work. Whatever we decide, I hope it does not rob that group of his presence. He's not the leader, but he is a steadying force and, I believe, a most important contributor there.
Frank, Alice: I have to say, too, that I can't help but read this with a mother's eyes. I know what it is like to leave a child behind, and I can guess how wrenching this must be. I would give anything to have even five words with my child again. I don't wish to be maudlin. I'm sorry. I only thought to mention Rue to explain to the others why I'm inclined to say that we should allow him to join.
That said, I do have one strong request of this whole group: really, we must resolve this question once and for all before we admit the Longbottom children or any of the rest. We cannot go on deciding these things in an agonizing debate in the crucible of crisis as each of them in turn stages a coup and forces our hands. We, after all, are adults. We abdicate our duty if we allow minor children to learn that they can manipulate us if only they can stage a properly skillful ambush.
What are the circumstances under which we think it appropriate to admit underaged members to the Order? What do we imagine their role will be? What parts of our work will we invite or forbid them to participate in? Will they be expected, as the Weasley twins are, to finish school? Are we subjecting them to more danger by including them under those terms?
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:15 am (UTC)since this afternoonfor the last hour.I agree that Neville's trustworthy. I'd have a couple of hesitations about bringing him into the Order. Some are minor -- for instance, he'd suddenly be privy to the sort of staff-room gossip that no Hogwarts student really ought to be reading. The concern that Pomona raised -- that this would distance him further from friends he needs and relies on -- is more of a concern.
When we discussed this some weeks back, I half-jokingly suggested we swear in the entire Jr. Auxiliary; Fred and George cautioned that not all of them are at the point that this would be a good idea. Nonetheless, it's clear there are a few things they've worked out rather conclusively -- specifically, that someone's smuggling in wands, and that Sirius Black and Hermione Granger are both members of this group.
Would it harm anything if we confirmed this, and added a few more pieces of information:
1. Neville's parents are also members of this group.
2. The Wand Smugglers are the ones who are sheltering Terry. (Surely they all suspect this. They might even have assumed it's true.)
If we told ALL of them, then it would erase some of the divisions between Neville and his peers. And it would give Neville some information he'd be allowed to keep, beyond 'it's okay.' I can't see how any of this would compromise the Order any more than we're already compromised (God help us all if Bellatrix Lestrange ever decide to legilimise any of them.)
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:19 am (UTC)Oh, Frank and Alice, I'm so sorry, but I don't really think that the children should be admitted before they come of age.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:23 am (UTC)And if he truly just didn't think to ask, I expect he'll figure out a way to put the question to his parents and then to us--when he decides that's something he wants to ask for. If he does decide it's what he wants.
Re: Private Message to Al
Date: 2012-07-31 03:24 am (UTC)He was so proud of you, love.
He looked over at you once or twice while Terry was talking, and I could tell. Plain as day. He was so very proud.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:30 am (UTC)This is plain good sense.
Wish I'd thought of it.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:36 am (UTC)And another thing: it means he could write private messages under Fred and George's lock to me for Mr and Mrs Longbottom, and I could pass them along to you!
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:45 am (UTC)I usually don't bring good news, I have to be the mum and tell people 'don't do that,' I'd like to get to say something good for once.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 03:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 04:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 05:41 am (UTC)I'm thinking about this, and here's another hesitation to adding Neville to the Order at this point that I'd add.
Neville's greatest fear -- his boggart -- is to accidentally betray Alice and Frank. I'm a bit concerned that the full knowledge might prove to be a heavy burden -- not one he'd refuse, if it were offered, but one he might find difficult to carry.
Allowing Terry and Hermione to tell him and his friends things he's more or less guessed will be a different matter.
I think the possibility of crushing a serious and trustworthy young person under the weight of deadly secrets is a good reason to hold off on adding anyone underage to the Order, although I hesitate to just make that policy. On one hand, I agree with Poppy, we can't keep re-opening this issue in crisis mode. On the other, there are things we can't foresee -- and when they come up, it's likely to be in a moment of crisis.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 06:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 06:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-31 08:14 pm (UTC)Private message to Frank and Alice Longbottom
Date: 2012-07-31 08:19 pm (UTC)Your son is a fine young man, there's no doubt of it. But I'm afraid that, taking all factors into consideration, we should wait.
Re: Private message to Frank and Alice Longbottom
Date: 2012-07-31 08:28 pm (UTC)two more years.
right.
Re: Private message to Frank and Alice Longbottom
Date: 2012-07-31 08:35 pm (UTC)We've got a limited time left to spend with our children. So we're going to concentrate on that right now.
There really isn't much else to say.